Fuck the pope, he was wrong about everything

[cadd]

As a bogtrotting taig I felt I should make some some sort of gesture. I bought an album on eBay by Impaled Nazarine.

[Monpot]

The flags are at half mast above Cardiff City Hall!

[Smileadelic]

It's sickening. This from today's Independent:

"Poet, playwright, actor, theologian, philosopher, sportsman, and the bishop of Rome. It may be safely said that no one, since the dawn of history, has spoken directly to so many people as did John Paul II."

What? The? Fuck?

[Fellalady]

Watching footage of his dead body being paraded around the vatican and then displayed at a 45 degree angle total put me off my dinner.

I don't know why I felt it necessary to add the angle bit. That was the level of detail in the news report.

[Senses]

"He has done nothing for peace in Northern Ireland"

I think the issue of 'Northern Ireland' is often grossly simplified by the British (or mainly English) media.

The continuation of sectarianism in NI has nothing to do with the Pope - you should be looking closer to home.

However on several occassions he appealed to the IRA, RIRA and other guerilla groups (who had carried on after their Freedom Fighter/Civil Rights activist status had long expired IMHO).

''On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and to return to the ways of peace....Violence only delays the day of justice....Further violence in Ireland will only drag down to ruin the land you claim to love and the values you claim to cherish. In the name of God I beg you...."

A lot of these people are not fighting in the name of Catholicism or Nationalism any more, so why would they listen to such messages.

"An eye for another eye till everyone is blind"

[John Brainlove]

Fair enough.
I just pulled a paragraph from some guy's anti-pope rant to try and counterbalance all this sycophantic media coverage.

[Senses]

Yeah - I thought's that's what ya were doing. Don't get me wrong - I think it's pretty weird and I went to a Catholic school etc... I don't care much for religion - although I find analysing how people have faith and how they display this i.e. in religious buildings, art, customs pretty amazing.

I was just trying to point out that the Northern Ireland/Pope quote isn't really relevant.

What site was it from btw JB?

[Durutti]

Essentially this is the kind of fucked up shit that results when you write your religious rules down in a Big Book of Truth -you get trapped into whatever the world view was at the time it was written.
Then you can't change it without terrible strife, war and soul searching because its the word of God isn't it? It's the Truth isn't it? How can it be wrong. If you let one thing go then the whole thing comes crashing down around you (bit like the USSR). So you end up with essentially good and well-meaning people (I see no reason to doubt old Karol meant well) doing and saying totally crazy things, like telling people condoms are the latex sheaths for Satan's swords. Good Freudian image there. ;D

[Fellalady]

Although I agree with all of the comments on this thread I feel the need to redress the balance a little.

I do remember the pope being quite a signifcant
anti-war voice during the early days of the Iraq conflict. I know that his motivations were largely vested, but his condemnation of the then imminent attack was welcomed by me nevertheless.

[creakyknees]

Hmmm that has to be weighed agaist the fact that you probably also objected to the war, have many people used that fact to praise you?.
I also seem to remember that most of the worlds governments and the UN was also against the war.
Not that really radical in that then, but it is to his credit, a bit of faint praise, if only it were that easy for me to garner adulation in my life.

By the way, whilst catching a view of the pope lying in state and cardinals trooping past.....it all looked so familiar......and then I got it.....it reminded me of snow white and the 7 dwarves when a bunch of odd looking men trooped past her casket.

Apart from almost demanding irreverant observations like this, what does all this blanket coverage offer?

I am genuinely confused, as I was with Diana's death.

[i_deserve...]

so maybe if you kiss the pope he'll come alive!

[Fellalady]

I wasn't suggesting that he was a lone voice at all during the Iraq conflict. I just noted him as being one of the more direct and scathing members of the opposition, which he continued to be. And didn't he plan/make a fairly controversal visit to Iraq at that time? I know I may have my facts wrong.

"Hmmm that has to be weighed agaist the fact that you probably also objected to the war, have many people used that fact to praise you?."

I am not quite sure of what you are getting at here, although I think I do. Am I being too defensive?

[John Brainlove]

Senses said:

What site was it from btw JB?

Hey, I like being JB.
Like when they call "Uncle" John Parrot JP on the snooker.
Not sure what site it was, I was google hopping "pope anti-gay", "pope anti-contraception", "pope spread of aids" etc

[creakyknees]

Fellalady yes you're being too defensive
, I was just saying that you probably say many humanist things yourself for free, many of us do, sometimes we may get castigated for it, by more reactionary forces, you may go on protest marches paying your expenses yourself, because of what you believe to be right.
But unlike the pope you don't get loads of people praising you for it, he gets paid (in kind) it is his job, we do it voluntarily, is my point.

[Fellalady]

I'm sorry Creaky, I think I got my wires crossed. I can be a bit of a fuckwit sometimes.

I see what your saying now. You've talked before about this kind of thing.