Punctuation

[JohnDTraynor]

I'm a pain about grammar. This is not because I am an expert. My upbringing did not encourage a thorough love of the English languge. I think correct punctuation, grammar and spelling is easy and is a demonstration of good manners.

Lynne Truss' book is one of the most erotic books I have ever read.

[Smileadelic]

Me too. Decent language is a necessary ingredient of intelligent discussion. Punctuating your sentences properly is a fundamental part of that.

[JohnDTraynor]

tafkac said:

I read Eats Shoots and Leaves and thought it was the most self-indulgent, patronising wankfest ever. Punctuation, like grammar isn't really that important, except for people with OCD. People like to present it as some kind of value-free way of maintaining "correct" language use, but what does that mean? As long as people can understand, what's the problem? There is no point whatsoever in things like colons and semicolons. They do have prescribed uses, but as far as I can see, there are few or, no situations in which their absence would cause somebody to misinterpret the meaning of a sentence. Its all just institutionalised language snobbery.

Good methods of communication is what separates humans from animals. Observing the rules of written communication allows the precise meaning to be clear and also aids brevity. It saves time, and allows the sentient humans to converse fully with oneanother. A lack of interest in grammar and punctuation is symptomatic of intellectual laziness and of an unwillingness to communicate with other people.

[Durutti]

Let's not forget Orwell's 1984 in which the regime deliberately degrades the language to deny people the ability to even formulate dissent. There is simply no way to express opposition. Orwell understood that language is what helps define humanity. It is very, very powerful.
That is why I really hate text speak. It is the slippery fucking slope.

[creakyknees]

Hmm that is something that I have overlooked, up to now, I have concentrated on the influence of popular media (papers, adverts, some TV, soundbites) eroding the populations ability to intelligently challenge political decisions.
I have gathered that in ancient greece, political discussion had a kind of grammar about its debate.
In this country our political debate always seems to get stuck in the eddies of old arguments, anecdotes and predjudices, then start flying about the place, and progress is not made, our parliament also needs to be educated in the 'grammar'and techniques of debate with the object of finding more truth, not just winning arguments.

My apologies I realise my punctuation is poor, I am sure that I use commas far too frequently.

[tafkac]

JohnDTraynor said:

Good methods of communication is what separates humans from animals. Observing the rules of written communication allows the precise meaning to be clear and also aids brevity. It saves time, and allows the sentient humans to converse fully with oneanother. A lack of interest in grammar and punctuation is symptomatic of intellectual laziness and of an unwillingness to communicate with other people.

I couldn't disagree more. Animals have very efficient methods of communication which tend to avoid many of the pitfalls of "language". There is a hell of a lot more to "understanding" than observing grammar rules. I don't want to have any aggressive slanging matches on this forum, but I have to say I find some of your comments kind of ignorant and offensive.

[John Brainlove]

I love how casually you throw a huge spanner in the works. It's great to get diametrically opposed viewpoints going, it breaks everything open a bit more.

[JohnDTraynor]

tafkac said:

Animals have very efficient methods of communication which tend to avoid many of the pitfalls of "language".

Sorry, you sound like a hippy.

[SCL]

JohnDTraynor said:

Sorry, you sound like a hippy.

I did think you were intelligent, I've since reconsidered, you argue your point like an imbecile.

[tafkac]

JohnDTraynor said:

Sorry, you sound like a hippy.

Sorry, you sound like a troll. Identifiable by substitution of arguments with personal insults. I'd happily explain what I mean if you want to have a sensible discussion.

[John Brainlove]

I like hippies.

[JohnDTraynor]

tafkac said:

Sorry, you sound like a troll.

I don't know anything about mythical beings such as elves, goblins and trolls. I do know that I wrote a post about how much I like correct punctuation and grammar. That is, a post about written language. You replied that you disagreed because animals communicate in other ways, presumably by licking onenaother's arses.

[creakyknees]

punctuation/hippies/rimming

A potentially great thread in the making.

By the way I do quite like hippies, although I would draw the line at being called one.

I would like to call down the spelling fury Wishpig to cast her opinion on punctuation.

I have arguments with Mrs Knees and Old Mother knees all the time about spelling, I think its mutable and that a wide vocabulary are more important, but that is probably because I am a mediocre/weak speller, but know quite a lot of words........Isn't there a tendancy for us to emphasise the importance of what we are good at at and downplay others strengths (not in a callow hypocritical way, perhaps we are good or weak in one area merely cos in the past we already decided one area was not that important and chose to concentrate elsewhere)?

[Durutti]

Never trust a hippy. They'll talk a load of bollocks and then either run away or sell you down the river when the shit hits.

[creakyknees]

What do you think others might class you as then?

I mean surely Bill Murrey is just an old cynical hard edged hippy?